Five Points Redevelopment

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Five Points Redevelopment

KmartFan
Hello!

Longtime reader here, first time poster. I'm curious as to what will be happening with the Five Points redevelopment now that the economy is slowing down...I've been eagerly following this construction project ever since I heard that Austin Lawrence had planned to tear down SouthBank. I know in past posts people have speculated that a lot of these projects will be on hold indefinitely.  (I emailed Austin Lawrence actually asking them about it but I doubt they'll be able to give me a clear answer due to legal reasons....)

I hope that even if it's postponed it'll eventually go foward. The sketches they've published look amazing!
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Durham_Transplant
This project didn’t seem to have very much momentum even before COVID. I know I’ve posted this a number of times but they’ve owned the property since 2013. Understand that One City Center project was way behind schedule so I’m sure that was a factor in the timeline. Also have heard complete speculation that the One City Center project has underperformed projections. And obviously Unscripted has to be suffering tremendously right now. But until/unless they sell the property I’ll assume they still plan to develop it at some point.

Looking around Durham right now it seems everything is understandably on pause. The large apartment development on Roxboro had the site prepped but no activity for months. Same for the new mixed use project at the Venable Center. Northwood has had some “community engagement” forums on Northgate and recently shut down the mall for good but no details beyond that. Crickets for basically years now on ATC2 and South Bank. I’d love to know a realistic timeline for getting any of these projects going again but it seems certain to take quite some time as folks struggle to understand the fallout from the pandemic and what things will look like on the other side. Wouldn’t be totally surprised to not see major movement again until 2022.



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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Dave @ Building Bull City
Administrator
I just posted on GeerHouse, which was originally reported in the TBJ. That is some big news.

The last I heard a little while ago from Austin Lawrence was they were steadily moving towards realizing those plans for the South Bank site. I agree that if there were delays, they may not be forthcoming with that info, though.

Big projects take time and I am with Durham_Transplant in that it will likely happen sooner or later, but may be more later than sooner.

Durham_Transplant - not surprised that One City Center is underperforming with apartment units at over $3/SF!
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

eastofdowntown
GeerHouse looks awesome!

I don’t have any info here, but talking “post pandemic development” - the put up a silt fence and started clearing the lot next to BullHouse this week. Looks like frontage is totally on Pettigrew, other borders being Elizabeth and Jackie Robinson Drive...
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Durham_Transplant
More apartments going next to BullHouse somehow. Housing supply of the non-SFH variety seems to be going crazy recently. Can’t understand how there’s so much demand but then I hear from people trying to buy a house and competing against 10+ offers so what do I know.
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Durham_Transplant
In reply to this post by KmartFan
Seven more months and hardly a whisper about this project. Super disappointing to see a prime location sit idle.
Gib
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Gib
I went and looked on Austin Lawrence's website.  While the project is still listed, when clicked on it goes no where and gives a 404 error. I'm growing concerned they may not be moving forward with it any longer.  
The current building is still on Loopnet with space available, though it says terms to end 12/31/2019. So that may not be up-to-date.   Which would have coincided with the projected ground breaking of Q1 2020
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Dave @ Building Bull City
Administrator
Part of me wonders if some of these projects are on hold due to the ridiculously high prices of lumber. Perhaps those that have low holding costs are waiting to see if those normalize a little.

No idea if that is what is driving Five Points, but just a thought.

I have to imagine that this site WILL get redeveloped eventually, whether in the next couple of years or in 5-10 years. The location demands a higher and better use.
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Durham_Transplant
In reply to this post by Gib
The Unscripted link on their site takes you to the same error page so I’m not sure that means much but like you feel that there’s not much momentum with this project. The last update directly from the developer was in that N&O article in early 2019 that said they planned to break ground in Q1 2020. Obviously the pandemic has altered reality for a lot of folks but if they were really far enough along to be ready to start by then we would have seen more evidence of that. Whatever the issues may be behind the scenes, if they no longer feel it’s feasible or it’s just not in their plans I hope they will sell the site to another party.
Gib
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Gib
I do hope they are just delayed.  I am also wondering if they are changing the plan to not include office space, or not as much based off the early renderings.  With COVID shifting many jobs to work from home and some decent size offices still available in the other new developments. I am wondering if they are seeing a shift in demand.

It looks like their other project, in Idaho, finished in August.  Maybe now they can focus their attention on Five Points.  
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Dave @ Building Bull City
Administrator
Side note - I love how Durham is set up with so much wet lab space, which shouldn't be as tenuous as regular office space in terms of demand.
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

elevatoroperator
In reply to this post by Dave @ Building Bull City
Wouldn't impact Five Points because they're going higher than 6 stories; it'll be a steel (or concrete) building.

I saw updated renderings of this from a friend a few months ago that he'd seen in a presentation the developer gave. So, something is cooking. No idea when.
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Durham_Transplant
Awesome, thanks for passing along and glad to hear that there is some high level activity on moving this forward. The next few years could transformational for Durham with the number of major projects planned and underway.
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Durham_Transplant
From the brownfield application posted on a different site it looks like the undefined “second phase” of this project could be a hotel. Hopefully they release some renderings of the project soon, things have been pretty boring around here.
Gib
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Gib
https://www.austinlawrencepartners.com/

Austin Lawrence has finally released their updated website. Maybe I'm grabbing at straws here, but I am hopeful that this means gears are starting to turn and we'll see something soon.
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

McHugh
I haven't seen any update on renderings or plans, but I noticed that a demolition permit application was filed today for the South Bank building.
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Durham_Transplant
Great, about damn time. Some large scale development about to really kick in over the next 12 months. Five Points, ATC West, Northgate and GeerHouse should all be in initial phases of demolition/site prep soon.
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

McHugh
Renderings just went up on Zillow. I could be wrong, but I count 27 floors. Appears to be all residential (but possibly with another building next to it). One condo is currently going for $3.47 million.
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

Durham_Transplant
About what was expected seems like. Not surprisingly looks an awful lot like One City Center. The building next to it was mentioned as a possible hotel in a next phase in one of the filings they made.
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Re: Five Points Redevelopment

BullCityBurbs
In reply to this post by McHugh
Looks like the courthouse with a few more windows and One City Center fused together. This combined with the Durham ID projects are going to make Morris Street have some serious height. The next big downtown sites that aren't spoken for (to my knowledge) are the YMCA parking lot and the site where the Duke Street explosion occurred.
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